Comments on: In the words of the gre–of Janice Dickinson, http://siddityinthecity.com/2006/12/20/in-the-words-of-the-gre-of-janice-dickinson/ Like Mr. Furious with a really nice handbag. Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:43:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2 By: Sid http://siddityinthecity.com/2006/12/20/in-the-words-of-the-gre-of-janice-dickinson/#comment-3297 Sid Sun, 31 Dec 2006 08:58:12 +0000 http://siddityinthecity.com/2006/12/20/in-the-words-of-the-gre-of-janice-dickinson/#comment-3297 R: on your first point, agreed. There were some students who really were fully prepared to the best of their abilities. Those students came in, they sat down, and they got to work. I was more disturbed by the students who came in unprepared and complained about everything in hopes of additional accomodation (having already been given separate rooms and additional testing time). For those students, everything was someone else's fault or responsibility--they could hear students in the hall, the room was too hot or cold, they didn't know they wouldn't have spell check and were distracted by their own typos, etc. To be fair, perhaps their disabilities will result in failed bar exams or poor interviewing skills which would serve to select them out of the profession, anyway, and the point is moot. Students like that are also probably inclined to "game the system," as you note, regardless of underlying disability. As far as hiring goes, I'm not concerned about being forced to hire counsel that has some disability; of course no one is forced, but initial consultations don't end with counsel saying, "By the way, I have ADHD. Please ignore any missed deadlines or pill-popping during negotiations." That is highly unlikely to be the behavior of a sucessful attorney, I know, but I watched a student fall apart--popping pills, yelling at herself and me, weeping, etc. Then, at the end of her test time,I had to feed her platitudes when she said she hoped her earlier behaviors weren't indicators of future "real life" failings. I wondered the same. "Real life" doesn't always come with built in OT. I believe ADD/ADHD exists, absolutely. I do wonder if as many people have it as claim to. I went to school with and worked with a lot of privileged people, and some of them had accountability issues and no scruples. And I likely have <a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2141820/" rel="nofollow">outdated or sensationalized information </a> regarding the prevalence or ease of feigning symptoms--though, on paper, and at least as far as the research goes, it <i>seems</i> easier to fake than bipolar disorder. I'm cynical. I'm working on it. ADD/ADHD is one of those things tied up with politics and class and perception. Give me homosexual one-legged dyslexics and I'm ready to bend over backwards to accomodate. Give me a rich boy with connections, an attitude and an apparent entitlement complex and I get tetchy. It's one of my biases, I admit, probably because I'm a poor minority girl with no connections who doesn't stick up for myself enough when I deserve a break, let alone when I just want one. :-/ I do hate poor spelling, full stop. I especially hate it when <i>I</i> misspell words. You should see me when I catch my own typos on this damned blog. I correct them, but am embarrassed for days. R: on your first point, agreed. There were some students who really were fully prepared to the best of their abilities. Those students came in, they sat down, and they got to work.

I was more disturbed by the students who came in unprepared and complained about everything in hopes of additional accomodation (having already been given separate rooms and additional testing time). For those students, everything was someone else’s fault or responsibility–they could hear students in the hall, the room was too hot or cold, they didn’t know they wouldn’t have spell check and were distracted by their own typos, etc.

To be fair, perhaps their disabilities will result in failed bar exams or poor interviewing skills which would serve to select them out of the profession, anyway, and the point is moot. Students like that are also probably inclined to “game the system,” as you note, regardless of underlying disability.

As far as hiring goes, I’m not concerned about being forced to hire counsel that has some disability; of course no one is forced, but initial consultations don’t end with counsel saying, “By the way, I have ADHD. Please ignore any missed deadlines or pill-popping during negotiations.”

That is highly unlikely to be the behavior of a sucessful attorney, I know, but I watched a student fall apart–popping pills, yelling at herself and me, weeping, etc. Then, at the end of her test time,I had to feed her platitudes when she said she hoped her earlier behaviors weren’t indicators of future “real life” failings. I wondered the same. “Real life” doesn’t always come with built in OT.

I believe ADD/ADHD exists, absolutely. I do wonder if as many people have it as claim to. I went to school with and worked with a lot of privileged people, and some of them had accountability issues and no scruples. And I likely have outdated or sensationalized information regarding the prevalence or ease of feigning symptoms–though, on paper, and at least as far as the research goes, it seems easier to fake than bipolar disorder.

I’m cynical. I’m working on it. ADD/ADHD is one of those things tied up with politics and class and perception. Give me homosexual one-legged dyslexics and I’m ready to bend over backwards to accomodate. Give me a rich boy with connections, an attitude and an apparent entitlement complex and I get tetchy. It’s one of my biases, I admit, probably because I’m a poor minority girl with no connections who doesn’t stick up for myself enough when I deserve a break, let alone when I just want one.

:-/

I do hate poor spelling, full stop. I especially hate it when I misspell words. You should see me when I catch my own typos on this damned blog. I correct them, but am embarrassed for days.

]]> By: R http://siddityinthecity.com/2006/12/20/in-the-words-of-the-gre-of-janice-dickinson/#comment-3056 R Wed, 27 Dec 2006 15:50:44 +0000 http://siddityinthecity.com/2006/12/20/in-the-words-of-the-gre-of-janice-dickinson/#comment-3056 Not to say that some people with the type of psychological/mental/physical disabilities won't succeed, but many more of them will -- they just need a little bit of leeway. Realize that placing someone -- anyone -- in a limited time multiple choice/essay environment isn't really testing what the real world of being an attorney is all about. Yes, some people will need more time to complete tasks (or need spell-check), but that is why firms give associates time to learn (and time before paying them the $$$) and have others check their work -- for YEARS! And meltdowns -- everyone has them, especially in law. There isn't a bar exam that someone who has already graduated from law school and studied doesn't get up and walk out. And many of those aren't disabled. The range of disabilities is great -- as are the possible additional skills one can bring to the profession -- great courtroom skills, great interpersonal/interviewing skills, great research skills, etc. These skills can help prevent a "disaster in the making" as you put it. These students realize their limitations -- they've been facing them for many years -- and likely will lead them to choose the type of legal career that is right for them. And about whether you have a learning disability yourself -- that I cannot judge, but a proper diagnosis erases the possibility of malingering and is based on more than a standard deviation difference in skill level. This isn't to say that some people don't game the system, but would you say that bipolar disorder doesn't exist because the possibility of faking is present? One last point -- you or others would not be forced to hire any disabled lawyer (as a hiring partner) if the person could not perform the job with "reasonable accomodation" (which has a smaller scope in employment than in education) and you would NEVER be forced to hire a disabled attorney as a client -- you can make your own choice. Not to say that some people with the type of psychological/mental/physical disabilities won’t succeed, but many more of them will — they just need a little bit of leeway.

Realize that placing someone — anyone — in a limited time multiple choice/essay environment isn’t really testing what the real world of being an attorney is all about. Yes, some people will need more time to complete tasks (or need spell-check), but that is why firms give associates time to learn (and time before paying them the $$$) and have others check their work — for YEARS!

And meltdowns — everyone has them, especially in law. There isn’t a bar exam that someone who has already graduated from law school and studied doesn’t get up and walk out. And many of those aren’t disabled.

The range of disabilities is great — as are the possible additional skills one can bring to the profession — great courtroom skills, great interpersonal/interviewing skills, great research skills, etc. These skills can help prevent a “disaster in the making” as you put it.

These students realize their limitations — they’ve been facing them for many years — and likely will lead them to choose the type of legal career that is right for them.

And about whether you have a learning disability yourself — that I cannot judge, but a proper diagnosis erases the possibility of malingering and is based on more than a standard deviation difference in skill level. This isn’t to say that some people don’t game the system, but would you say that bipolar disorder doesn’t exist because the possibility of faking is present?

One last point — you or others would not be forced to hire any disabled lawyer (as a hiring partner) if the person could not perform the job with “reasonable accomodation” (which has a smaller scope in employment than in education) and you would NEVER be forced to hire a disabled attorney as a client — you can make your own choice.

]]> By: divine m http://siddityinthecity.com/2006/12/20/in-the-words-of-the-gre-of-janice-dickinson/#comment-2977 divine m Thu, 21 Dec 2006 04:35:45 +0000 http://siddityinthecity.com/2006/12/20/in-the-words-of-the-gre-of-janice-dickinson/#comment-2977 Mehreaorwr. "Don't tangle with an Irishman in an Irish bar" and don't mess with Sid on her blog. But I didn't mean to tangle, really I didn't. Sarcasm has never suited me. Sorry to offend. I'll get out of the way! Mehreaorwr. “Don’t tangle with an Irishman in an Irish bar” and don’t mess with Sid on her blog. But I didn’t mean to tangle, really I didn’t. Sarcasm has never suited me. Sorry to offend. I’ll get out of the way!

]]> By: sid http://siddityinthecity.com/2006/12/20/in-the-words-of-the-gre-of-janice-dickinson/#comment-2975 sid Thu, 21 Dec 2006 00:04:44 +0000 http://siddityinthecity.com/2006/12/20/in-the-words-of-the-gre-of-janice-dickinson/#comment-2975 Divine: (edit--I rephrase. My initial impression of your comment was as an extension of prior conversations.) That opinion of academia? Not about you. SitC is about <i>me.</i> You describe your own intentions, perceptions and experience as a teacher. Not everyone who ends up doing it meant to, or goes into the endeavor so starry-eyed. Some people do go into academia with pure and lofty intentions, but not all of them do. Sorry to be arrogant or self-centered about it, but no, I have absolutely no doubt I could go work at a university, plod away at a doctorate, fall into teaching. *shrug* I didn't get through Yale being stupid or incompetent. I have a master's degree. I could start teaching at a community college tomorrow. I wouldn't like it. It isn't what I always wanted do. My heart would not be in it. I would half-ass it. I don't really want to be responsible for molding young minds. I don't have the patience. Maybe one day that will change. People keep telling me it's inevitable that I end up in academia. We'll see, I guess. But right now, it is not for me. All that would make me a shitty teacher, which is why I really don't want to do it. Good for the world that you do. Divine: (edit–I rephrase. My initial impression of your comment was as an extension of prior conversations.) That opinion of academia? Not about you. SitC is about me. You describe your own intentions, perceptions and experience as a teacher. Not everyone who ends up doing it meant to, or goes into the endeavor so starry-eyed.

Some people do go into academia with pure and lofty intentions, but not all of them do. Sorry to be arrogant or self-centered about it, but no, I have absolutely no doubt I could go work at a university, plod away at a doctorate, fall into teaching. *shrug* I didn’t get through Yale being stupid or incompetent. I have a master’s degree. I could start teaching at a community college tomorrow. I wouldn’t like it. It isn’t what I always wanted do. My heart would not be in it. I would half-ass it. I don’t really want to be responsible for molding young minds. I don’t have the patience. Maybe one day that will change. People keep telling me it’s inevitable that I end up in academia. We’ll see, I guess. But right now, it is not for me. All that would make me a shitty teacher, which is why I really don’t want to do it.

Good for the world that you do.

]]> By: divine m http://siddityinthecity.com/2006/12/20/in-the-words-of-the-gre-of-janice-dickinson/#comment-2974 divine m Wed, 20 Dec 2006 19:30:09 +0000 http://siddityinthecity.com/2006/12/20/in-the-words-of-the-gre-of-janice-dickinson/#comment-2974 Right. Because landing yourself into the bowels of academia, working away at a doctorate while attempting to mold young minds for the better, publish, and expand your horizons while actually becoming someone worthy of the title "teacher" is a cake walk. Nah. Too easy. Why bother? Right. Because landing yourself into the bowels of academia, working away at a doctorate while attempting to mold young minds for the better, publish, and expand your horizons while actually becoming someone worthy of the title “teacher” is a cake walk.

Nah. Too easy. Why bother?

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