As a fellow New Yorkerette trying to shed a few pounds, I love your blog!!
i found it by absolute chance through NYC Bloggers.

I vent as well, to relieve stress, which is good and bad.
I only skimmed the debate at hand and, it being Sunday eve, must admit it is much to big for me wee brain.

btw I am toying with reviewing blogs by other New Yorkers and would love to start with yours. More later.

cheers!
-k

Once advice is given and a decision is made, whether the advice is followed oder nicht, a friend is someone who is supportive. If the decision is the right one, a friend helps you celebrate the victory. If the decision is the wrong one, a friend helps you pick up the pieces and move on. Those who do not have your best interest at heart predicate their support on whether you choose “their” path.

1. Michelle, it may be your personal inclination (as is mine) and your very personal experience that the people you are surrounded by want to offer unsolicated advice and opinions to those talking about their particular issues. That’s fine. But as much as you would want the person talking to tell you that they are not looking for advice, it would behoove people like us to actually ask if someone would like to hear what we have to say on the matter. Basiscially, it would help a whole hell of a lot if both parties involved were thoughtful instead of putting the burden on one side. Example: “Yeah. I hear what you’re saying. I think I have a solution for that if you’re interested in hearing it,” would be a thoughtful thing to say if the person you are listening to didn’t say whether or not they were looking for advice.

2. From Sid’s post: “Do what I say. No, really, do what I say. I don’t understand why you aren’t doing what I said, which is The Right Thing, so I don’t want to hear it” phenomenon. :::sigh::: This is what I really have a problem with. Especially if the person giving advice wasn’t even listening or paying attention in the first place.
Advice is a suggestion. A recommendation. It is neither instruction, law, nor mandate. Therefore when someone gives advice, especially when it wasn’t freakin’ asked for, they are not allowed to then be angry that it wasn’t followed. I get annoyed when people give advice then moan that it wasn’t used. Well, because advice is, again, a suggestion, maybe a possible guideline. Advice should be given in the spirit and understanding the person listening is a sentient human being who is fully capable of making their own decisions that may or may not include your opinion.

And again, I don’t mind friends expressing their take on things. I get cranky when they insist I do as they would based on their worldview–Or Else. I have a loving, protective (bossy) mother already, thanks. LOL.

***

I should also note that this whole conversation makes me wonder if I haven’t been doing my due diligence as a friend by not indicating more often or more strongly when I am concerned for my friends. Gah. Now I’m going to be a total asspain in the opposite direction, asking people if they want specific advice or an ear. Must go ponder more.

To me, that speaks, in and of itself, as someone putting their expectations onto another person….”you should do x,y, and z because I expect it of you–even if I haven’t told you I expect it of you.

If I’m the one who’s taking my issues, rants, vents, problems to someone else, then it’s up to me to make it clear what I expect from that person—if I don’t make it clear, then I can only hold myself responsible if I hear or get something I don’t like in return from that person.

For me, it comes simply comes down to self-responsibility.

Now, once what you want and expect is out there (i.e. we now know that more than likely you personally are just venting about a situation and don’t necessarily need advice–but you will ask for it if you do want it), hopefully friends will do their best to abide by that because you asked and it’s what’s most helpful to or for you in those circumstances.

Me, on the other hand…if I’m discussing something with you, then I’m more than likely looking for your input and/or advice, unless I specifically say I’m just venting or ranting or whatnot. And I need to preface it with that so people know–and I can’t say I’m good at that because I make the erroneous assumption that they KNOW that I want the feedback. So, I”m guilty of not taking responsibility for making that known (though I have to say, 9 times out of 10, I will get advice without asking because again, I think that’s just what a majority of people do when talking with friends).

As for doing what they want anyways, I always give a disclaimer! LOL Ask for advice I’ll give it but don’t be mad if you do your own thing and it doesn’t work out. If you do take it and it doesn’t work out well then we can figure out a solution. Otherwise, shut up. LMao!

I’m saying choose your battles. Dealing with someone elses issues is taxing mentally, physically, emotionally and really all across the board, considering you care for friends and empathise with them. Adding the consideration of another individuals woes to your own is somethign to bear in mind. I’m saying I personally do not give unsolicited advice. When I do get asked to give advice I have come to expect it won’t be followed as people just do what they want anyway, good or bad. Also I own that I am the worst person to give myself advice, so I do seek it out or am open to it when it comes in, can’t guarantee I’ll follow it, I think my personal history bears that out.

The rest of that spam comment was me painting back to your broad strokes bysplashing buckets of paint as examples which really just made a big ole mess of the intent which is the pargraph above. I will do better next time. Besos.

Second: I am confused?

I can’t tell if you’re saying you don’t give advice unless it’s asked for, or if you give it whether or not it is asked for but don’t expect anyone to follow it. Or don’t believe in giving advice? Or you’re saying you think I should avoid advice-bearing people who make me uncomfortable?

I did paint it in broad strokes, because there are a few incidents with a few different people in mind. And I have thought a great deal about this. I’m introspective (see above). I think. It’s what I do. The unexamined life is not worth living, etc.

There’s a difference between saying, “You know, a little club soda will get that stain out,” and “If you don’t put some club soda on that, shut up about that stain.” Especially if I’m in the middle of trying to explain that it’s not a stain, it’s a Bon Jovi iron-on, and I like it right where it is, thanks.

Why does it become my responsibility to tell someone I don’t want what I didn’t ask for? (I will do so if I have to, or clarify my situation until the cows come home if I think you misapprehend the situation.) I could say, conversely, “Why can’t you ask if I’m seeking advice before offering any?” You are as responsible for the message you deliver as I am for mine. (h/t L)

Make sense?

Oh, and thanks! I’m trying–going to the gym right now! Ish. Like, in 5. Meh.

Jo: You’re on! I haven’t seen you logged in lately. We’ll have to do a cross-country support network!

And I agree. I had a friend years ago who was on the receiving end of my advice. She would ask for it, and then do, like, the opposite. It made me nuts. It also helped me realize people don’t always want to be told what to do. Hell, even if they do want to be told what to do, you have to let them figure it out for themselves. If it goes right, they’ll take all the credit, and if it goes wrong, you’ll get all the blame!

Some people just don’t learn from their mistakes and they are dooomed to repeat them. Some people have been raised to or have learned to seek out those situations that bring them to the situation you are frequently finding frustrating because they like the drama and they like to be extroverted about it or hate speak about the situation they’ve entered into again.

Realistically, in my vegetarians example above, I find vegetarians to be loathesome thus I avoid them. I avoid people I find “needy” or “clingy”. Churchie types too and I go to Church regularly. I am doing better in my personal life to avoid people or situtions that enflame my personal flaws with excessive partying which again points to my proposing it’s better to be choosie about whom you interact with or choose as friends and or conduct yourself.

And more over the most valuable thing I do now at 36 is I just tell people flat out what I am thinking or my perspective and be done with it (if they ask). I will listen carefully and give my opinion/advice and be done with it. I already know people are going to do what they want to anyway. Also they like to give the answer they wish to depsite the pointed ness of a direct question. So why bother? I vary from this with regard to two individuals and family whom I offer to. Admittedly one individual asks my advice as she feels it is the most “safe” and “conservative” advice and then does the oposite but uses my advice as a base for jumping off. I have since stopped advising this person because it is a waste of my time to put so much effort into the answer or advice knowing she is going to disregard it anyway and she knows it.

Also, I have ceased to enter into discussions which I have come to own/learned/been made to feel/needed to accept I will “never be able to understand” and personally feel I am not a party to or responsible for; such as race relationships as an example or feminism. Som epeople just love to pick up this drum and go on and on beating it like “this is because you’re a man that this is like this thump thump thump” when my having a penis really has nothing to do with that persons experience/habits/choices and so on. But of course, like anything, if you go looking for something you can find it be it by some degrees of seperation, so they just keep beating that drum…

So yeah, I don’t go out much anymore. I invite people I like/repect/enjoy/find or have found friendship in to my home for pig roast and go out on occasion if invited to do so and am just happy to interact with friends as they have time to interact with me without holding it against them if I don’t see them and expect the same courtesy in return.